The Avalyn Digest

Today's Topics:
	 Re: Unidentified subject!
	 Re: Unidentified subject!
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 monorail vs. monaural
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Shoegaze (was: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles)
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: Shoegaze (was: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles)
	 Re: monorail vs. monaural
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles
	 Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:44:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!

> Hi everebody, i want to have more info about a band called "monorail" are
> they any good? What is their best Album? What do they sound like?
> 
errr....if you do actually mean "monorail", that's my roommate Mike who is
on this list in fact. He also goes under fourhead. Anyhow, monorail only
has one song - coming soon on the Solutions and Remedies CD compilation
(out April 24!) on my own Clairecords....indulge...

Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:20:05 -0500 (EST)
From: butterfly mcqueen 
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!

At 07:44 PM 4/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> Hi everebody, i want to have more info about a band called "monorail" are
>> they any good? What is their best Album? What do they sound like?
>> 
>errr....if you do actually mean "monorail", that's my roommate Mike who is
>on this list in fact. He also goes under fourhead. Anyhow, monorail only
>has one song - coming soon on the Solutions and Remedies CD compilation
>(out April 24!) on my own Clairecords....indulge...

maybe he was thinking of monaural, who are amazing.  what have they released
besides that burnt hair 12" and the track on the bedroom ambience comp?
hungry for more....

; ed

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 06:12:17 EST
From: Catchbreez 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

In a message dated 98-04-03 11:42:17 EST, you write:

<<  think it;s a bit strange actually that people feel this way. To me, it
 describes a certain kind of music. "Swooshy, swirly, dreamy, noisy,
 whammybarorama music" >>

shoegaze
derogatory term to belittle the atmospheric my bloody valentine/cocteau twins
influenced pop
shoegaze is a bad term

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 06:15:51 EST
From: Catchbreez 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

In a message dated 98-04-03 12:17:18 EST, you write:

<<  don't think that's ever a reason not to use such a term -- the word was
 quickly reclaimed by the scene [that celebrates itself] and used
 affectionately to describe bands playing a more or less concrete style of
 music.  i kind of like the word.  at least it's not pretentious like
 'post-rock'!  (who else thinks we should put a gag order on simon reynolds?)
;)
 
 ; e.e. >>

well mojave 3 hate the world and slowdive is what we all love

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 06:16:31 EST
From: Catchbreez 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

In a message dated 98-04-03 12:17:18 EST, you write:

<<  don't think that's ever a reason not to use such a term -- the word was
 quickly reclaimed by the scene [that celebrates itself] and used
 affectionately to describe bands playing a more or less concrete style of
 music.  i kind of like the word.  at least it's not pretentious like
 'post-rock'!  (who else thinks we should put a gag order on simon reynolds?)
;)
 
 ; e.e. >>
sorry like the drunk fuck im am

i ment to say word (shoegaze) not world 
please dont start rumors

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 98 20:23:27 UT
From: "Lisa Johnson" 
Subject: monorail vs. monaural

This in reference to the Michigan bad Monorail which has been mentioned on 
this list a few times now...

Unless someone has information to the contrary, I'm convinced the band in 
question is actually Monaural, who have an excellent 12" out on Burnt Hair 
Records (a consistently great label).  If anyone is interested in Windy & Carl 
type ambience layered over electronic percussion, the Monaural EP "Harmonic" 
is definitely worth tracking down... as is the "Duel Group" EP by labelmates 
Auburn Lull/Mahogany (a split 12") if you can find it.  After much talk of the 
Dearborn "space-rock scene", there doesn't seem to be much activity these 
days... which is a bit disappointing.  Mahogany have a new 7" out on a 
Scottish label, and the Grimble Grumble EP/LP releases are quite promising, 
but does anybody know of any other Michigan projects underway (besides Fuxa)?

Peace
Gary

ps:  if anybody wants to order the aforementioned vinyl only releases 
directly, contact Larry Hofmann at:

Burnt Hair Records
P.O. Box 5519
Dearborn MI 48128

...or contact Daniel or Josh at Claire de Leon!:
http://www.gdn.net/~cdl

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:22:20 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

Sounds like someone is taking a little too intellectual approach/response
towards describing music, which for the most part should all stay under the
generic guise of "MUSIC" Albeit, some good, some bad...

So shoegaze, dreampop, whirl whoosh away...It is all the same....Styles
change, progress etc...but it is all just music..

Let the press try to figure out what it is... 



At 11:35 AM 4/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> ...Just wanted to say that personally I think use of the term
>> shoegaze(ing) is pure bollocks ...   Not trying to offend anyone here; but
>> don't you realise that the term was made up by the Brit Press to, somewhat
>> derisively, refer to bands such as Lush, Ride, Slowdive, etc...
>> 
>> 	There's nothing wrong w/ making comparisons; but even if you felt
>> compelled to use shoegazing, that all happened 8 yrs. ago.  It's not
>> particularly relevant today, especially as regards a "new" band such as
>> the one written about in the above post ...
> 
>I think it;s a bit strange actually that people feel this way. To me, it
>describes a certain kind of music. "Swooshy, swirly, dreamy, noisy,
>whammybarorama music" doesn't come off as well - I personally like the
>term, and consider myself a shoegazer at heart! I don't thik we should
>slag any term or musical style that happened 8 years ago. There's so many
>sides to this - look at punk bands. Punk. The word means a degenerate
>person, or whatever Webster's has to say about it. But most punk bands
>might be snotty punks for real, but I'm sure some of them are upper class
>kids just making the music. Still punk music though. 
>	ah, whatever, I just like the term, that's all! I think there will
>always be a problem with labelling "shoegazing" as someone will be against
>every term that comes up (dreampop, shoegazing, miasma) so it's a bit odd
>of a scenario...
>
>Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:25:42 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

How can anyone ever describe a musical approach/style by a term that
describes what the band looks like as they play..



At 06:12 AM 4/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-04-03 11:42:17 EST, you write:
>
><<  think it;s a bit strange actually that people feel this way. To me, it
> describes a certain kind of music. "Swooshy, swirly, dreamy, noisy,
> whammybarorama music" >>
>
>shoegaze
>derogatory term to belittle the atmospheric my bloody valentine/cocteau twins
>influenced pop
>shoegaze is a bad term
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:52:18 -0500 (EST)
From: butterfly mcqueen 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

At 01:25 PM 4/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>How can anyone ever describe a musical approach/style by a term that
>describes what the band looks like as they play..

well, they're not just looking at their shoes!  their shoes just happen to
be stepping on certain things that litter the entire stage.  (pedals, anyone?)

; ed

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:50:55 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

yes I know. I know that the term was used due to all effects that these
bands employ that they use by hitting their foot pedals.

I was simply making a point that we can attribute any "description" to
attach to a style of music. Shoegazing does not imply musical style or
anything really for that matter


At 03:52 PM 4/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 01:25 PM 4/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>How can anyone ever describe a musical approach/style by a term that
>>describes what the band looks like as they play..
>
>well, they're not just looking at their shoes!  their shoes just happen to
>be stepping on certain things that litter the entire stage.  (pedals, anyone?)
>
>; ed
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:02:15 EST
From: Jal191 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

In a message dated 4/4/98 3:53:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eehong@wesleyan.edu writes:

<< 
 well, they're not just looking at their shoes!  their shoes just happen to
 be stepping on certain things that litter the entire stage.  (pedals,
anyone?)
>>

WELL SAID

jess

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:57:18 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

hope you read my reply


At 04:02 PM 4/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 4/4/98 3:53:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>eehong@wesleyan.edu writes:
>
><< 
> well, they're not just looking at their shoes!  their shoes just happen to
> be stepping on certain things that litter the entire stage.  (pedals,
>anyone?)
>>>
>
>WELL SAID
>
>jess

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:08:10 EST
From: Jal191 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

In a message dated 4/4/98 4:08:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
xymox@mail.aros.net writes:

<< hope you read my reply >>
what was it? send again : (	 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:05:46 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

yes I know. I know that the term was used due to all effects that these
bands employ that they use by hitting their foot pedals.

I was simply making a point that we can attribute any "description" to
attach to a style of music. Shoegazing does not imply musical style or
anything really for that matter


At 04:08 PM 4/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 4/4/98 4:08:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>xymox@mail.aros.net writes:
>
><< hope you read my reply >>
>what was it? send again : (	 
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 23:18:28 +0200
From: Erik Soderstrom 
Subject: Shoegaze (was: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles)

At 16:08 1998-04-04 EST, you wrote:
> In a message dated 4/4/98 4:08:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> xymox@mail.aros.net writes:
>
> << hope you read my reply >>
> what was it? send again : (	 

This is really getting out of hand (kind of like the sale/trade
thread a few days ago) don't you all think? "Shoegaze" is really
a recognized label/genre for the kind of music Slowdive played,
not something a few UK music magazines used a while for fun.
But we can call it dreampop, drone, indie, pop, whatever, if
we like. But what's the point? When someone says "shoegaze" I
for one understand what that person is trying to describe.

 //Erik

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:23:17 -0500 (EST)
From: butterfly mcqueen 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

At 01:50 PM 4/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>yes I know. I know that the term was used due to all effects that these
>bands employ that they use by hitting their foot pedals.
>
>I was simply making a point that we can attribute any "description" to
>attach to a style of music. Shoegazing does not imply musical style or
>anything really for that matter

i think you're missing another, more fundamental point -- the word has a
*historical* context in which it was attached to a certain sound and loosely
described style.  (largely the fault of the british press.)  of course it
doesn't have inherent connotations as to musical style.  no words inherently
mean anything apart from context.

; e.e.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:15:36 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: Shoegaze (was: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles)

I agree. I was trying to trivialize the use of the term. It is really
meaningless except that it refers to a few bands. Not a STYLE of music

At 11:18 PM 4/4/98 +0200, you wrote:
>At 16:08 1998-04-04 EST, you wrote:
>> In a message dated 4/4/98 4:08:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> xymox@mail.aros.net writes:
>>
>> << hope you read my reply >>
>> what was it? send again : (	 
>
>This is really getting out of hand (kind of like the sale/trade
>thread a few days ago) don't you all think? "Shoegaze" is really
>a recognized label/genre for the kind of music Slowdive played,
>not something a few UK music magazines used a while for fun.
>But we can call it dreampop, drone, indie, pop, whatever, if
>we like. But what's the point? When someone says "shoegaze" I
>for one understand what that person is trying to describe.
>
> //Erik

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 15:28:08 -0600
From: Brad Nicholson 
Subject: Re: monorail vs. monaural

At 08:23 PM 04/04/98 +0000, you wrote:
>but does anybody know of any other Michigan projects underway (besides Fuxa)?

New Windy and Carl album, "Depths", comes out on Kranky on April 13.  It
sounds a lot different from the Drawing of Sound.

brad 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:29:24 EST
From: Jal191 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

In a message dated 4/4/98 4:17:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
xymox@mail.aros.net writes:

<< yes I know. I know that the term was used due to all effects that these
 bands employ that they use by hitting their foot pedals.
 
 I was simply making a point that we can attribute any "description" to
 attach to a style of music. Shoegazing does not imply musical style or
 anything really for that matter
>>

when people ask you to classify your musical taste, what do you say? "i listen
to shoegaze music?" ambient? techno? there is something for all types of
music, what do you say? i say, its shoegaze.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:21:42 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

i hear you.. I have followed Slowdive, MBV etc from their very first
releases. So I understand the fundamental point. Some people take "marking"
music with terms ( aka new wave, etc) a bit too far. I am more a purist.

At 04:23 PM 4/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>At 01:50 PM 4/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>yes I know. I know that the term was used due to all effects that these
>>bands employ that they use by hitting their foot pedals.
>>
>>I was simply making a point that we can attribute any "description" to
>>attach to a style of music. Shoegazing does not imply musical style or
>>anything really for that matter
>
>i think you're missing another, more fundamental point -- the word has a
>*historical* context in which it was attached to a certain sound and loosely
>described style.  (largely the fault of the british press.)  of course it
>doesn't have inherent connotations as to musical style.  no words inherently
>mean anything apart from context.
>
>; e.e.
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:28:50 -0700 (MST)
From: michael maes 
Subject: Re: colorwall@juno.com: Y107 in Los Angeles

I don't feel that I can tell them what type of music that I listen to. I
tell them that I listen to a more ethereal, avant garde style.

I always have them listen to it and let them attach a term..

I give them names....there is no way else to describe the music. Especially
Slowdive... No one believes me when I tell them that the music they are
listening to is generate through the use of guitars...etc

At 04:29 PM 4/4/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 4/4/98 4:17:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>xymox@mail.aros.net writes:
>
><< yes I know. I know that the term was used due to all effects that these
> bands employ that they use by hitting their foot pedals.
> 
> I was simply making a point that we can attribute any "description" to
> attach to a style of music. Shoegazing does not imply musical style or
> anything really for that matter
>  >>
>when people ask you to classify your musical taste, what do you say? "i listen
>to shoegaze music?" ambient? techno? there is something for all types of
>music, what do you say? i say, its shoegaze.
>
>

------------------------------

End of Avalyn Digest Vol.98 #46
********************************

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This page was last updated Apr 5, 1998 by Erik Söderström

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