The Avalyn Digest

Today's Topics:
	 Re: down with shoegazing, down w/ mediocrity! :-)
	 MBV offer
	 Re: starflyer 69
	 Re: lush albums
	 Re: Starflyer 59 and Velour 100
	 Re: down with shoegazing, down w/ mediocrity! :-)
	 ultracherryviolet
	 Re: ultracherryviolet
	 Re: Colfax Abbey + SF59
	 Kitchens - Shoegaze
	 ALISON on Much Music
	 Re: ALISON on Much Music
	 SF59, lush, etc.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:23:26 +0600
From: box-and-whiskers 
Subject: Re: down with shoegazing, down w/ mediocrity! :-)

>>> Better than shoegazer bands decending into pure crap a la Ride and Lush.
>> 
>> actually, i'm glad lush moved out of the shoegazing thing; their sound was
>> getting pretty tired, and it took on a new life with _split_ and _lovelife_.

Yeah, on _lovelife_, complete and utter crap (as brad already stated).
there's only one redeeming song on that whole album, and there just so
happens to be an even better version of it on an earlier ep.

> From where I stand, SPLIT is the best overall of their 3 records:

Agreed.  well, that's the one i listen to most, anyhow.

>	Spooky has it's moments; but I don't think Guthrie did much for it
>in many cases, and some songs are are surely the worse for his production 

'Production' is the operative word where lush are concerned.  miki can't
sing in 'real life'!

>> but for me, if a shoegazing band is anything less than wonderful, it's
>> actually more tiresome to listen to than mediocre bands of other varieties.
>> the cliches, when not pulled off well, are SO ANNOYING!  give me generic
>> indie rock anyday when it comes down to that.

No way.  as if the majority of indierock (that term not interpreted loosely)
bands didn't all sound enough alike as it is.

> Well, as I've mentioned before, I personally could do w/o the "shoegaze"
> categorization  ....  But, i do understand what is _meant_ by the
> category; and I wouldn't put "KITCHENS" in it!
>
> It seems to me that the only thing which would really qualify them
> to be put in a genre w/ someone like Slowdive, et al., is that the gtr.
> player used a whole mess of Effects ....

Well, isn't the way a band uses their effects pedals one of the main
criteria to be categorized as 'shoegaze'?  i think _strange free world_ (and
moments on their other albums as well) is very *ahem* 'shoegazey'.

> Yes, I can see your point re. BEDAZZLED bands.  Yet, most of their
> stuff I wouldn't think of as, if I must, "shoegaze."

A mention of bedazzled and i can certainly be expected to chime in...
anyway, although i think it very unfair to pigeonhole all of the bedazzled
bands by insisting that they all sound 'shoegazey' (which is not the case),
it seems to happen quite a bit.  check out this little blurb that appeared
in the local weekly about one of their shows on halloween two years ago
(found it the other day as i was going through a stack of old papers):

Every band on the local bedazzled label sounds like the cocteau twins, ride,
and/or lush.  so if you're a fan of any of the usual pastel blissmongers
[that one kills me!  -s], you should haunt phantasmagoria's halloween-night
'bedazzled records showcase.'  sniff the ether as copycat twins siddal guide
you through a post-coital comedown with its highly mechanized etherealness!
etherealize to viola peacock's ethereally smudged passion rock!  etheriate
in the curtain society's digitized ethereal melancholia!  snicker
(ethereally, natch) at an april march's name as you sway to its rigid gothic
ethereality!  do you get a discount if you come costumed as your favorite
shoegazer? --christopher porter

I think you all got the point.

> One BEDAZZLED band, the orig. one, actually, isn't bad:  STRANGE
> BOUTIQUE.  Some of their stuff is very good actually ... though, I have,
> admittedly, some bias where they're concerned ...

Oh yeah?

> In any case I don't think anyone has ever referred to Strange
> Boutique as "shoegazers."  And if they had, then they would have had to
> have a very different conception of the term than me!
>
> Strange Boutique took their name, by the way [for anybody that
> cares] from a MONOCHROME SET song ...

I thought it was an album?  (but i could be wrong!)

> Because of the singer's sometimes dodgy fashion sense

Ahahaha!  yeah, she's a much snappier dresser now that it's not the eighties
anymore and she's going for the whole 'medieval' look.

> they [S.Boutique]
> were embraced by the Goth-crowd: leading them to being sort of falsely
> identified as a Goth band -- a condition which didn't do them any favours
> in the grand scheme of things ...

Well, that's for sure.  but i don't think that it was monica's fashion sense
entirely that thrust  that stigma upon them -- that i can remember, they (or
rather, she) were always being described as sounding like siouxsie.  and
that's exactly what i thought the first time i heard the album _charm_ a few
years ago.  (and i can't stand siouxsie!)  anyway, it wasn't until recently
that i decided to give them another chance...and was pleasantly surprised.
but then again, i'm not afraid of the big bad 'g-word'.

> PS ...last thing 'bout Bedazzled:  I've heard some mention that the
> short lived ULTRA CHERRY VIOLET were a credible band along the lines of
> slowdive or something [obviously NO ONE is quite like Slowdive! ...] ...

Since when did qualifying as a 'credible' band become equated to sounding
like slowdive?!  anyway, ultracherry violet are a credible band in my book,
but more along the lines of a noisier red house painters or something.  too
bad they broke up.

> Yet, personally, I can't speak to the above ...  Which is pretty bad,
> since I've been acquainted w/ everyone that played in the band ...
> Erm, ... did see them play live once and one song still sticks in my head
> as being very good ... 

Quite possibly 'i think you're lying to me' (which i think is their best
song by far.)

> Oh, well, it doesn't seem there's much of a case to
> be made here ...  But, all I know is, there are some out there who would
> seem to want to make one ;-)

And i guess i'm one of them.

Woo!  free advertising!

Susan.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:43:33 +0000
From: Myron 
Subject: MBV offer

A few days ago someone was offering aid at getting a copy of the
first 2 very rare MY BLOODY VALENTINE albums.  Well, I need that
person's address again, and I thought someone would send it to me.

I tried to go the list website to check the archives, but the
site appears to be down.  So, thanks!

Myron

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:40:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jason Morehead <00161068@bigred.unl.edu>
Subject: Re: starflyer 69

> could you tell me more about starflyer 69 music?
> Where could  i find their records?

you can order their stuff from tooth and nail -
http://www.toothandnail.com.  you might be able to find their stuff in some
record stores or in best buy, or in almost any Christian bookstore.

> Which is their best album?

well it depends... i like each one.  i'm really into their latest one,
"americana" which is much more straightforward rock and roll then their
previous stuff - their black sabbath influences were shining through.
their first album, "silver", is the most shoegazerish of their releases,
with the whole dreamy-vocals-buried-in-a-wall-of-sound thing going on.  it
reminds me of a heavier catherine wheel or swervedriver.  their second
album, "gold", went for more of a Jesus and Mary Chain/lounge direction.
one thing jason martin (starflyer 59's main man) has said constantly is
that he doesn't want to be pinned down to one "style" for every album,
which is why the styles change so much.  however, you always know you're
listening to starflyer, no matter what album you listen to.  there's a very
distinctive nature to the music.

jason martin has also formed a band with his wife, julie, called bon
voyage.  i've got two of their 7" records, and they just released a
full-length on BEC recordings - http://www.becrecordings.com.  bon voyage
is much poppier, with female vocals.  quite nice stuff.

btw, if anyone is into synth-pop, then they must check out joy electric.
joy electric is ronnie martin, jason's brother.  ronnie is a pop music
genius.

jason

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 04:26:45 EDT
From: Catchbreez 
Subject: Re: lush albums

well
i would have to say at the moment
my favourites
are
spooky (the japanese version with god's gift and falling in love)
spilt
cookie
topolino
gala
lovelife

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:53:24 EDT
From: Lull45 
Subject: Re: Starflyer 59 and Velour 100

Hey kids,

Its cool that you guys are talking about SF59 in which J Martin is a good
friend of mine...True, the best album is the Silver album, its the most Dream-
poppie one good wall of guitars and hushed vocals, Gold is brilliant too, As
for saying Velour is better than SF59, well thats a tough one because Velour
is more of a mellow, band, but i heard that they changed some of their sounds,
and they dont have Amon Krist anymore.  Fall Sounds is a really good album,
very spacious and it has a couple of good ambient songs such as Dub Space and
the 4th track in which i cant remeber the name right now, as for the best SF
song, i think it's Hazel Would so yeah pick it up.  You can find it at
chirstian music stores and also other record shops.  Plus J has started a new
band called Bon Voyage in which his wife sings.  So check them out as well,
hmmm kind like Starflyer but with a girl singer, but you can still hear the
difference.  J would be pleased to know that people are actually talking about
SF.

Cheers
George 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:22:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: Re: down with shoegazing, down w/ mediocrity! :-)

> PS ...last thing 'bout Bedazzled:  I've heard some mention that the
> short lived ULTRA CHERRY VIOLET were a credible band along the lines of
> slowdive or something [obviously NO ONE is quite like Slowdive! ...] ...
> Yet, personally, I can't speak to the above ...  Which is pretty bad,
> since I've been acquainted w/ everyone that played in the band ...
> Erm, ... did see them play live once and one song still sticks in my head
> as being very good ... oh, well, it doesn't seem there's much of a case to
> be made here ...  But, all I know is, there are some out there who would
> seem to want to make one ;-)

I think their single "Remember" is total shoegazing mammoth brilliance.
I've heard parts of the album and it doesn't even sound like the same
band, IMO. But the crashing guitars and faux Ian Masters-esque vocals are
juuuussstttt right, I think!

Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:37:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: ultracherryviolet

On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Claire De Leon! wrote:

> > PS ...last thing 'bout Bedazzled:  I've heard some mention that the
> > short lived ULTRA CHERRY VIOLET were a credible band along the lines of
> > slowdive or something [obviously NO ONE is quite like Slowdive! ...] ...
> > Yet, personally, I can't speak to the above ...  Which is pretty bad,
> > since I've been acquainted w/ everyone that played in the band ...
> > Erm, ... did see them play live once and one song still sticks in my head
> > as being very good ... oh, well, it doesn't seem there's much of a case to
> > be made here ...  But, all I know is, there are some out there who would
> > seem to want to make one ;-)
> 
> I think their single "Remember" is total shoegazing mammoth brilliance.
> I've heard parts of the album and it doesn't even sound like the same
> band, IMO. But the crashing guitars and faux Ian Masters-esque vocals are
> juuuussstttt right, I think!

The stuff was all recorded in the late '80s/early 90s, so they couldn't
have been using Masters as a reference point - I'm pretty sure ..
Rather, that's just Dugan's voice!

Was "remember" released before or after their album, I wonder?

--Michael [still going against the categorizing grain - "hey! I gots to be
me" :-)]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:41:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: Re: ultracherryviolet

> > I think their single "Remember" is total shoegazing mammoth brilliance.
> > I've heard parts of the album and it doesn't even sound like the same
> > band, IMO. But the crashing guitars and faux Ian Masters-esque vocals are
> > juuuussstttt right, I think!
> 
> The stuff was all recorded in the late '80s/early 90s, so they couldn't
> have been using Masters as a reference point - I'm pretty sure ..
> Rather, that's just Dugan's voice!

Yeah, I agree, although Pale Saints were around at that time I believe. 

> Was "remember" released before or after their album, I wonder?

I'm pretty sure it was before...

Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:02:20 +0200
From: Erik Soderstrom 
Subject: Re: Colfax Abbey + SF59

>>> I'm pretty sure that they have broken up.  They are/were on Prospective
>>> Records.  They'ver released two albums, "Drop" which is the straight out
>>> dreampop one, and Penetration, which is considerably more ambient.
>>
>> That is just my luck - bands breaking up before one actually finds them
>> - and, it seems, the evolution of the shoegaze bands into ambient.
>> Sigh.
>
> nope.  they just decided to do an ambient album.  i actually saw them
> live and talked to the bass player afterwards.  their show was comprised
> of stuff from _drop_ and nothing from _penetration_.  i have both, and
> i'd definitely recommend getting _drop_.  _penetration_, imho, is just 
> second-rate ambience and quite forgettable.

COLFAX ABBEY
I'll hunt down "drop" for sure - Luis? I suppose the clips you sent me
were from drop as well, right? But they aren't still around? Does anyone
know what happened, and where they are now?

STARFLYER 59
I dropped by cdnow and listened to both the silvery (which is listed
as "self titled") and gold clips and these were actually not bad at
all. I can understand people recommending the silver one before the
gold though - you can even see the difference in the titles. An
album with a song called "Droned" can't be bad, can it? ;) The
comparison to a somewhat heavier Catherine Wheel or Swervedriver
someone posted earlier is a pretty good one too IMO.

 //Erik 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:18:41 EDT
From: ALTONBARNS 
Subject: Kitchens - Shoegaze

In a message dated 26/04/98  06:35:30, you write:

>> Well, as I've mentioned before, I personally could do w/o the "shoegaze"
>> categorization  ....  But, i do understand what is _meant_ by the
>> category; and I wouldn't put "KITCHENS" in it!
>>
>> It seems to me that the only thing which would really qualify them
>> to be put in a genre w/ someone like Slowdive, et al., is that the gtr.
>> player used a whole mess of Effects ....
>
> Well, isn't the way a band uses their effects pedals one of the main
> criteria to be categorized as 'shoegaze'?  i think _strange free world_
> (and moments on their other albums as well) is very *ahem* 'shoegazey'.

I agree...blinding guitars on:
Prize
The 3rd Time we Opened the Capsule
Mad As Snow (listen to the Glastonbury version!)
Gone World Gone
Remember Me?
One of Those Sometimes is Now

Ant

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:29:19 EDT
From: Jal191 
Subject: ALISON on Much Music

...last night, kinda late on much music there was a request to play
alison...and so, the nice people that they are...played it. it was awesome to
see...ive never seen the video. it made me feel good to know that somewhere
out there in the middle of the night, music video stations will still honor a
great band.

ta ta, jess

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:35:58 -0600
From: Brad Nicholson 
Subject: Re: ALISON on Much Music

That was brilliant, but you should have tuned in a half an hour eariler.
It was on the Wedge, and they started off with Mogwai's "Summer" video, and
followed it up with mbv's "Soon".  Both were utterly brilliant.

brad.

> ...last night, kinda late on much music there was a request to play
> alison...and so, the nice people that they are...played it. it was awesome
> to see...ive never seen the video. it made me feel good to know that
> somewhere out there in the middle of the night, music video stations
> will still honor a great band.
>
> ta ta, jess

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:50:55 PDT
From: "Pearson Greer" 
Subject: SF59, lush, etc.

Speaking of shoegaze bands that get better/worse with time, Starflyer 
59's most recent full cd (at least i think its most recent) Americana, 
was  my favourite by them. unlike most shoegaze bands that try to go 
more "organic and less effect-y", (can we say Stoned and Dethroned,
Tarantula, Lovelife...), this was my fave by Starflyer 59-less distorted 
than most of their stuff, but a lot more melodic. also...Starflyer's 
drummer is in a couple of really great bands, the one that's still 
active is the Lassie Foundation, not to be too facile, but if you ever 
hear the MBV meets Beach Boys description of them- its actually quite 
apt. the other was the Prayer Chain, which was my more personal fave, 
but i cant really describe them without becoming a raving fanboy of the 
worst magnitude.( i cant really describe lovesliescrushing for fear of 
same- to whoever was asking, just buy anything you can get your hands on 
by them )

About Lush and Kitchens of Distinction...i used to have this tape of a 
tape of a tape,etc. from the Glastonbury festival- Lush did Starlust, 
and it crushes the cd version, as did Kitchens' Mad As Snow, oh, and 
Spiritualized's Shine a Light/Electric Mainline...anyone ever run across 
a recording with all those..?
having said far too much probably, i stop.
- pearson

------------------------------

End of Avalyn Digest Vol.98 #59
********************************

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This page was last updated Apr 27, 1998 by Erik Söderström

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