The Avalyn Digest

Today's Topics:
	 Re: silvania
	 Re: Deep Blue Day
	 Re: Question
	 Re: Question
	 Re: Question
	 Closedown (4AD-L Forward)
	 RE: Pale Saints In Ribbons
	 Re: pale saints dolphins
	 Re: Pale Saints In Ribbons
	 Sweredriver on Slowdive (hot off the press)
	 Re: pale saints dolphins
	 pale saints and emotive force
	 Re: pale saints dolphins
	 Re: pale saints dolphins
	 About songwriting
	 Re: Closedown (4AD-L Forward)
	 Re: About songwriting
	 "feelings whoao, feelings" [nee saints dolphins]
	 speaking of spoonfed hybrid
	 Re: pale saints and emotive force

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:35:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gage Crump 
Subject: Re: silvania

Talking about Spanish bands that are great, check out Los Planetas. I have
"Super8" and "Pop" (granted, a bad title) and they are swirling melodic
southern Spain masters. A lot of phaser, flanger, and feedback like
Swervedriver but of course a feel of their own. On Elefant Records maybe?
My friend bought them for me in Sevilla so I'm not sure of their
availablity otherwise. -gage

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:50:20 EDT
From: Catchbreez 
Subject: Re: Deep Blue Day

apollo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:37:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: Re: Question

> Isn't "Free-D" their first one? I always thought it was? Music Boulevard
> had it in their catalogue yesterday at least. I don't remember the exact
> price but it was the usual $11.99 or something similar.

nope. the EOST discography, as far as I know, goes something like:

-Pigment 12"
-Sussurate LP 
-fluidtrancecentauri 10"/CDep
-Free-D double LP/CD
-Astralavista 12"/CD

and somewhere in there are two comp tracks, which can be found on the
above anyhow.

> EoST... they only did one video, right? I have only seen one at least
> and I think it was for the song "fluidum" - on MTV (120 Minutes back
> when it was a "must see").

good lord....someone needs to make a video comp of all the best rare
shoegazing videos. Slowdive, EOST, Chapterhouse, Lush, etc. Everyone seems
to have the Ride and MBV videos, but what about the others?? Anyone??

> P.S. Thanks for the sig drop daniel - even though you effectively erased
>      a full day's work on the digest filter ;) It'll speed up things
>      though. D.S.

well i just have to remember to delete it every time I send a message now
so i may forget every now and then!

daniel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:00:03 +0200
From: Erik Soderstrom 
Subject: Re: Question

>> Isn't "Free-D" their first one? I always thought it was? Music Boulevard
>> had it in their catalogue yesterday at least. I don't remember the exact
>> price but it was the usual $11.99 or something similar.
> 
> nope. the EOST discography, as far as I know, goes something like:
>
> -Pigment 12"
> -Sussurate LP 
> -fluidtrancecentauri 10"/CDep
> -Free-D double LP/CD
> -Astralavista 12"/CD
>
> and somewhere in there are two comp tracks, which can be found on the
> above anyhow.

Hmm, the AstralaVista is an EP as well, which means they have released
two albums (of which one I have never heard of even...) well, another
one to the "probably never find" list. :-/  Has anyone here got it?
"Sussurate" I mean?

>> EoST... they only did one video, right? I have only seen one at least
>> and I think it was for the song "fluidum" - on MTV (120 Minutes back
>> when it was a "must see").
> 
> good lord....someone needs to make a video comp of all the best rare
> shoegazing videos. Slowdive, EOST, Chapterhouse, Lush, etc. Everyone
> seems to have the Ride and MBV videos, but what about the others??
> Anyone??

I have the EoST video (with the interview etc.) at least and a couple
of Lush ones. No Slowdive videos at all (which is really annoying -
I have actually never seen one on TV) - all in PAL format though.
But you're right. I'd like to see comp videos for _a lot_ of bands.

>> P.S. Thanks for the sig drop daniel - even though you effectively erased
>>      a full day's work on the digest filter ;) It'll speed up things
>>      though. D.S.
>
> well i just have to remember to delete it every time I send a message
> now so i may forget every now and then!

Okay, I better keep the filter then! ;-) No, I'll remove it - if it
only happens now and then, I can delete them manually.

 //Erik

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:43:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: Re: Question

> Hmm, the AstralaVista is an EP as well, which means they have released
> two albums (of which one I have never heard of even...) well, another
> one to the "probably never find" list. :-/  Has anyone here got it?
> "Sussurate" I mean?

hee hee ha! I have seriously never heard of ANYONE having this record! I
thought it was a joke! Same with the debut 12"...but now I have one.
wowzers! umm...i have a copy of Sussurate, albeit a very very terrible
quality cassette....so muffled it's ridiculous. But an incredible
record...

daniel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:39:12 +0200
From: Erik Soderstrom 
Subject: Closedown (4AD-L Forward)

Forwarded from the 4AD-L list (it's in MP3 format):

- Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:27:25 -0700
- From:    Matthew Polder 
- Subject: song of the week
-
- Hi all,
-
- This week's song is swirling masterpiece entitled "Bumblebee" by
- Closedown. It can be heard at
-
- http://www.ags.uci.edu/~mpolder
-
- thanks,
- matthew

I've also set up a mirror (in case you're in Europe somewhere
and want a faster link) which also contains three other mp3's:

Colfax Abbey - "Silver" (thanks to Luis!)
Shallow - "Missile Command"
Bizarre - "Pearlshell Fairy"

I might replace these with other songs further down the line,
perhaps every week or two weeks - any suggestions on songs
and bands - please pass them on (to me personally I suppose,
I'm not sure how interested all the list members are?)

The link is: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/music.html

 //Erik 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:16:43 -0700
From: Travis Rust 
Subject: RE: Pale Saints In Ribbons

Speaking of "hair shoes," I've always enjoyed the demo version on the Flesh 
Balloon ep much more than the album version.  The album version is a bit 
slower which makes his singing seem a little forced.  When I first heard 
the Half-life ep I was hooked to his vox.  Definitely one of the more 
interesting, pleasing voices.  I just wonder what he sounds like when he 
speaks.
Travis

-----Original Message-----
From:	Espsummer [SMTP:Espsummer@aol.com]
Sent:	Monday, April 27, 1998 9:36 PM
To:	avalyn@lysator.liu.se
Subject:	Re: Pale Saints In Ribbons

               second rate............that was so harsh......ian masters of
the pale saints/spoonfed hybrid fame has the best voice i  think i have 
ever
heard.  I think the song "hairshoe" for example is one of the most stunning
songs ever to come out of this shoegazing genre of music.
               You could not have given the album much of a 
chance...........

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:00:21 EDT
From: Espsummer 
Subject: Re: pale saints dolphins

                 the way you presented your "disliking" of the pale saints was
obviously offensive to fans.............weak songwriting? hmm........i would
think my bloody valentine's song writing.......and definaltely spiritualized's
songwriting to be weaker......
                Then again.....there is much more emotion in the music of the
pale saints/ian masters than of bands like spiritualized.....perhaps that
annoys you?
Thats why i don't like spiritualized myself......its rather dull.......but
thats just my own subjective opinion right?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:14:35 EDT
From: Espsummer 
Subject: Re: Pale Saints In Ribbons

                    screw this list i wanna join a pale saints
list..........hahaha

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:17:49 -0700
From: Anthony Cornish 
Subject: Sweredriver on Slowdive (hot off the press)

Greetings,
	Picked this out of inpress magazine today (an excerpt from a
swervedriver interview)

Inpress> You guys were innocently talking about slowdive and then all of
a sudden it is plastered all over the internet that you discovered them

Adam> Yeah, I have heard about that as well. People have asked me about
that. Yeah, completely wrong. False information gets out there, rumours
you hear and it's like chinese whispers, it gets carried out of all
proportion. It's not remotely true.

Think about that one.

Anthony.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:32:27 EDT
From: Suedehead0 
Subject: Re: pale saints dolphins

In a message dated 98-04-29 00:03:16 EDT, you write:

<<
 Thats why i don't like spiritualized myself......its rather dull.......but
 thats just my own subjective opinion right?
>>

i must agree with with you here.  i've never once listened to spiritualized
without falling into complete boredom.  their songs seem uninspired and often
just lack...music.  their songs have many holes that anyone could fill.
erm, i'll shut up now

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 01:00:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: pale saints and emotive force

On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Espsummer wrote:

> the way you presented your "disliking" of the pale saints was
> obviously offensive to fans.........weak song-writing? hmm.....i would
> think my bloody valentine's song writing...and definaltely spiritualized's
> songwriting to be weaker......
>
> Then again.....there is much more emotion in the music of the
> pale saints/ian masters than of bands like spiritualized.....perhaps that
> annoys you?

Hey everyone!  Michael here to weigh in again on the 
continuing pale saints discussion ...

I count Pale Saints as one of my favourite bands - some may
already have gathered this ;-)  I also think SPIRITUALIZED is very good
...  I don't agree that Pierce's songwriting is w/o emotion:  especially
on the latest record; which, as far as I can tell, was one of the
best albums that came out last year ...

> Thats why i don't like spiritualized myself......its rather dull.......but
> thats just my own subjective opinion right?
 
Yes --- Pale Saints and Spiritualized are very different, but I think the
latter has some absolutely ace stuff ... and the most brilliant thing is
Pierce has improved upon each record - something you don't see
happen that much in pop music ...

Obviously the above are my opinions - and it's actually a close
call between "PURE PHASE" and "LADIES AND GENTLEMAN WE ARE ..." But _this_
is really subjective!

The point is that I wouldn't slag off Jason Spaceman and co. ...

Re. MBV:  here, you hit closer to the mark of your "premise" ...

But yeah, [back to the beginning] I agree:  I don't know how one could
call Pale Saints weak song-writers ... though, if one were just
considering "COMFORTS", then I guess they would have a leg to stand on.
But otherwise, that characterization - i.e. that their writing is
generally weak - is bollocks ...  The best I could offer is that they
weren't totally consistent in the quality of song-writing ... 

bon soir,
michael

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:37:25 -0600
From: Brad Nicholson 
Subject: Re: pale saints dolphins

At 12:00 AM 29/04/98 -0400, you wrote:
> the way you presented your "disliking" of the pale saints was
> obviously offensive to fans..........weak songwriting? hmm........i would
> think my bloody valentine's song writing....and definaltely spiritualized's
> songwriting to be weaker......

A matter of opinion.  And as far a songwriting, I don't care how complex or
unique the chord progressions are (I be on the Yngvie Malmsteem list if
that were the case), it's about how things are structured, how those chords
are used, the vocal melodies, the overall sound, ect.  From a tradition
standpoint, Spiritualized's song writing is very weak.  Nearly everything
Jason has ever written is some variation on D/G/C chord progressions (three
of the first chords anybody learns to play).  

> Then again.....there is much more emotion in the music of the
> pale saints/ian masters than of bands like spiritualized.....perhaps that
> annoys you?

Annoy me? Not in the least.  Just because I like a band, I don't expect
other's to as well, and it certainly doesn't bother me if they don't.  The
whole notion is ridiculous.  

Overall, a pretty subjective opinion about Spiritualized being emotionless.
I'll go out on a limb and say that you've never seen the crowds reaction
to "Broken Heart" at a Spiritualized show.

> Thats why i don't like spiritualized myself......its rather dull.......but
> thats just my own subjective opinion right?

That's exactly it, your opinion.  And that's why I'm not in the least
offended by you calling Spiritualized dull.  You have every right in the
world not to like them, and I'm not going to suggest that you didn't give
them a chance, or whatever.  Everyone has there own personal tastes.

brad.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:19:43 EDT
From: SkyFireRed 
Subject: Re: pale saints dolphins

In a message dated 4/28/98 11:39:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
bdn116@mail.usask.ca writes:

<<
 That's exactly it, your opinion.  And that's why I'm not in the least
 offended by you calling Spiritualized dull.  You have every right in the
 world not to like them, and I'm not going to suggest that you didn't give
 them a chance, or whatever.  Everyone has there own personal tastes.
>>

hmmmm . . . perhaps thats where our differences lie.  music is not just a
"thing" to me--it consumes me, it fills me, it is part of the fabric of my
life, which is why i cant help but be a musician and songwriter.  it is a deep
and powerful part of my soul--hence my "ridiculous" reaction.  it is hard for
me to be detached or logical.
sorry if i ticked you off.
just so you know, when i was younger i used to get into fist fights if someone
dissed the smiths.
besides if you like spiritualized, you cant be ALL bad.  ;-)
still opinionated,
james

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:27:44 +0100
From: "Kurt.Verweire" 
Subject: About songwriting

About songwriting: I think that is one of the most important things
which makes a band sound good. A friend of mine just told me that that
was the reason why My Bloody Valentine (he pointed to the Loveless
album) never got that much success. He argued that their sounds were
brilliant, but they lacked the songs. Of course I didn't agree with him
but it stuck me.
At least I do find that most of these dreampop bands you are all talking
about miss songwriting talent. And that is what Slowdive, My Bloody
Valentine, Verve distinguish from the rest (U2 is another good example
of songwriting). They have it both: songs and a distinctive sound.
Kurt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:43:01 EDT
From: SkyFireRed 
Subject: Re: Closedown (4AD-L Forward)

In a message dated 4/28/98 6:40:56 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
chief@lysator.liu.se writes:

<<
 This week's song is swirling masterpiece entitled "Bumblebee" by
 - Closedown. It can be heard at
 -
 - http://www.ags.uci.edu/~mpolder
>>

this really is a good song--definitely check it out.  its one of those slow
swirling ones that takes you away somewhere and makes you catch your breath in
awe . . .
mind you thats just my "opinion"!  lol
if you like it id recommend that you check out the von trapps as well.  the
song i like is off a compilation--i think its called "out in a boat."
--james

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:15:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: Re: About songwriting

On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Kurt.Verweire wrote:

> About songwriting: I think that is one of the most important things
> which makes a band sound good. A friend of mine just told me that that
> was the reason why My Bloody Valentine (he pointed to the Loveless
> album) never got that much success. He argued that their sounds were
> brilliant, but they lacked the songs. Of course I didn't agree with him
> but it stuck me.

The Boo Radleys - after signing to Creation - were described by one or
more of the Press as "like MBV but w/ songs!". :D


> At least I do find that most of these dreampop bands you are all talking
> about miss songwriting talent. And that is what Slowdive, My Bloody
> Valentine, Verve distinguish from the rest (U2 is another good example
> of songwriting). They have it both: songs and a distinctive sound.

I think you're really treading on shaky ground when you bring up VERVE ...
but Ashcroft sometimes seems like he must get lucid enough, now and
again, to write a reasonable couplet   ... "Bittersweet Symphony" _not_
being an example of this ;-)
"the drugs don't work" would be a good example, in my book ...

cheers,
--michael

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:42:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: "feelings whoao, feelings" [nee saints dolphins]

> In a message dated 4/28/98 11:39:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
> bdn116@mail.usask.ca writes:
> 
> hmmmm . . . perhaps thats where our differences lie.  music is not just a
> "thing" to me--it consumes me, it fills me, it is part of the fabric of my
> life, which is why i cant help but be a musician and songwriter.  it is a
> deep and powerful part of my soul--hence my "ridiculous" reaction.  it is
> hard for  me to be detached or logical.
> sorry if i ticked you off.

This is getting more interesting!  I wonder whether the above lad has
heard the latest spiritualized record?

Cos now, w/ the way he's described himself, I'd be surprised if he
could listen and find it lacking in emotion ....

Some of the stuff on "LADIES AND GENTS" is the most emotive music
I've heard in a LONG time; really tear-jerking yet also somehow uplifting
stuff ...  

And the other lad weighing in on them mentioned seeing
Spiritualized live:  whoaa what an experience that is ...  I saw 'em here
back in Jan. and it was just incredible; the first time I saw 'em it was
just as much so [but different in that they played a short set 'cause they
were opening for the Banshees...]  

> just so you know, when i was younger i used to get into fist fights if
> someone dissed the smiths. besides if you like spiritualized, you cant
> be ALL bad.  ;-)

Well that's pretty extreme, isn't it ;-) ?
But good for you, The Smiths were always a band well worthy of
defense!

--michael

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:31:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lorraine Lelis 
Subject: speaking of spoonfed hybrid

does anyone know the lyrics to boys in zinc?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:31:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lorraine Lelis 
Subject: Re: pale saints and emotive force

i definitely think the pale saints are underrated!  their songwriting is
so good, they stay up there with mbv and slowdive for me.  

even when you just look at time signatures, pale saints are very creative
there- "ordeal" uses an interesting what is it?  5/4?  there is so much
dynamic beauty on comforts of madness - my favorite ps album- much work
put into 
"true coming dream"
"sea of sound" (harmonies)

when you get into spoonfed hybrid et al, there's even more amazing
songwriting... "boys in zinc" blows me away.

lorraine
with a less focused message than usual

------------------------------

End of Avalyn Digest Vol.98 #64
********************************

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and in HTML format at http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/avalyn.html.

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This page was last updated Apr 30, 1998 by Erik Söderström

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