The Avalyn Digest

Today's Topics:
	 Random Thoughts
	 Re: Random Thoughts
	 Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content)
	 read this erik
	 Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a nice guy...
	 Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions
	 Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content)
	 Re: pale saints and emotive force
	 Re: pale saints and emotive force
	 Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions
	 MESSAGE TO SIIM KALDER
	 Pale Saints EPs
	 Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:19:45 -0700
From: Travis Rust 
Subject: Random Thoughts

As a relatively new subscriber to the list (only recent on the internet), I 
am under the impression from a recent post that The Verve's Urban Hymns was 
not received well  by list members.  I don't intend to bring up past 
discussions but would appreciate a general consensus from someone. 
 Although I find the album to be their best yet, it is obviously a 
 different style.
Then again, if I could only own one release it would be the Verve EP. 
 "Gravity Grave"-my vote for best bassline ever.	

Songwriting-there are too many ways to define "good" songwriting, so I'll 
put it this way:

"good (in my opinion)" songwriting--Swervedriver, The Smiths, Joy Division, 
Moose, and, of course, Slowdive.

"good (in the opinion of the purchasing public)" songwriting-Celine Dion, 
Alanis Morrissette, George "one hand in my pocket" Michael

After listening to the Mojave 3 set from the SXSW festival at the Rolling 
Stone site, I have again realized that this is the perfect name for this 
band.  There's something about the music that conjures up visions of dusty 
desert highways and breathtaking vistas.  My point?  Are there any music 
videos off of Ask Me Tomorrow?  "Love Songs," possibly?  Also, as a 
filmmaker living in Arizona, USA, I would love to pursue the opportunity of 
producing a music video to a song off the new album (with 4ad's money or my 
own).  I would be curious to see what I could work out.  Any suggestions on 
how to contact the band or 4ad are needed.

Thanks for enduring my lengthy post

Travis

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:56:54 +0200
From: Erik Soderstrom 
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts

> As a relatively new subscriber to the list (only recent on the internet), I 
> am under the impression from a recent post that The Verve's Urban Hymns was 
> not received well  by list members.  I don't intend to bring up past 
> discussions but would appreciate a general consensus from someone. 
> Although I find the album to be their best yet, it is obviously a 
> different style.

I personally rate "A Storm In Heaven" as their best, with "Urban Hymns"
as a close second. I never really enjoyed "A Northern Soul", but I'm
not sure why as it really is a good one. But it doesn't compare to
the other two (IMO).

> Then again, if I could only own one release it would be the Verve EP. 
> "Gravity Grave"-my vote for best bassline ever.	

Definitely. It's my all time favourite Verve song. Especially the
Glastonbury live version. I would have died if I had been there. ;)
They did play it at the Hultsfred festival 1994. As soon as it
started I immediately and completely forgot to take photos. Not
a single one during the whole song. That is powerful.

>My point?  Are there any music videos off of Ask Me Tomorrow?
>"Love Songs," possibly?

Yes, they did one for "Love Songs on the Radio" - there's a
description in the "discography" if you're interested at:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/mojave3.html

> Also, as a filmmaker living in Arizona, USA, I would love to pursue the 
> opportunity of producing a music video to a song off the new album (with 
> 4ad's money or my own).  I would be curious to see what I could work out.  
> Any suggestions on how to contact the band or 4ad are needed.

Rachel reads this list (and she does print out and show stuff to
Neil as well as far as I know - hi Rachel & Neil! ;)) so she'll
probably spot this as well. I don't want to post her personal
e-mail address on a mailing list (or on a web page), but e-mail
me in private and it shouldn't be a problem.

 //Erik 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:37:56 PDT
From: "Matthew Falconer" 
Subject: Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content)

Hi peeps

I was a little concerned at some of the attitude going on in this list 
over something as SIMPLE as buying a friggin' Slowdive EP.

Let's look at a few facts, shall we???

Slowdive - Outside your room EP = £7 + £3 for postage which is a total 
of £10

Now lets convert this into a few currencies, shall we???

OK, £7 is equivalent to EXACTLY $11.67 in US currency.

And what about postage??

Let's take a look, then, shall we??? Well, it turns out that £3 that the 
said davebp@postmaster.co.uk was asking for is EXACTLY 5.0014 (or, 
rounded off, $5). So, that comes to a total of $16.67 in US currency. 

Quite a reasonable price for a Slowdive EP considering what some people 
charge for them. I don't know what it would cost to buy £ sterling 
banknotes in the US but I'll assume that it wouldn't be more than an 
extra $4 or $5 to do this. So, all up, you'd pay about $20 for the EP. 
How does that sound??? Not too good? Oh, OK, find it cheaper elsewhere, 
then!! (which could be done, true, but as time goes by, Slowdive EP's 
outside the UK just become harder and harder to get, so if you were 
going to get them outside of the UK you'd be paying higher prices 
anyway!!!!).

I look at it this way: as I live in Sydney, Australia, I have to pay 
higher prices than the lot of you because our currency is so weak at the 
moment. So converting Australian $$$ into any other currency can be an 
expensive exercize, sometimes. To buy that Slowdive EP, it would cost me 
about $21 - $22 Australian (because it isn't too expensive to buy 
foreign banknotes here -  so I would assume that my estimate for what it 
would cost in US $$$ would proably be lower). Not too bad considering 
Slowdive EP's were generally around $15 - $17 Australian dollars to 
import over here when they were in print and it was possible to order 
them from record shops.

Manners???? Well, davebp@postmaster.co.uk did say... ah, fuck it: to 
save an argument, I'll just quote him:

Dave:
> can you send me a ten pound (stirling) note? yes or no?
> first person who sez yes and agrees to send it. and gets the cd... 
> simple.

It took me about 2 seconds to understand what he was saying when he said 
this. There is a principle involved here: first come, first serve. Just 
think: if someone offers a cheap Slowdive EP over the 'net, how many 
mails do you think they'd get with offers for it??? (rhetorical 
question). It's a little bloody hard to promise it to anyone if he's 
going to get 1000000000 e-mails from people wanting him to send it to 
them. Or, even worse, he could have auctioned it: didn't someone on this 
list just pay $30 for the same EP???? Dave seems to be offering you a 
bit of a bargain, methinks. (you'd be paying less than two thirds of 
this cost if you asked Dave very nicely (important bit!!!! - as Erik 
said: amnners go a LONG way!!!) to buy it for you. What's so bad about 
that???)

> I don't really want to get into this, but I agree - that's one helluva
> attitude problem there. But who knows, maybe he lost his job the same
> day, his car was stolen and his life savings were gone? All those 
> things in a day would do the trick for me...

Maybe you're just happy to pay fucking up-the-wall prices for CD's that, 
at the end of the day, just aren't worth that much money. $50 my ass...

> And, a simple "Sorry, but $10 doesn't cover it. £10 is about US $13.00
> and the freight will probably be more like $5 to the US" reply is a lot
> better than telling someone to go blow a flagpole.

I never heard him say anything about "going and blowing a flagpole"??? 
Did he??? where's the mail he sent???

Anyways, I was thinking about going down to one of the MANY foreign 
exhange places here in Australia and getting some £ sterling and buying 
the CD for myself. If I sent over £10 sterling I'm sure Dave would be 
gracious enough to do as he asked.  I don't know who the hell he is 
(like anyone you buy CD's off over the 'net, really) but it sounds like 
a good enough offer to me! Then what I'd do is double the price up to 
about $40 - $50 and make some cash on it!!! Seems there are plenty of 
people around the place willing to pay that...

Never say that I didn't tell you all not to look a gift horse in the 
mouth...

Cheerio!!!

Matthew


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:37:31 +0100
From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: read this erik

| > fourthly, i had a shitload of replies from people assuming that they were
| > the first person and thus the cd was theirs. so i told EVERYONE. the first
| > person to sort it so that they can send me ten pounds cash gets the cd.
| > simple.
|
| You can use the list to say that "hey all who sent me mail about the
| Slowdive thingie - it's already gone" which would have saved you the
| trouble of replying to all the e-mails but one - ie. the first who
| mailed you about it.

no i couldn't. it wasnt already gone. because nobody could actually get
their
head around the concept that i wanted £10 cash. no matter how many times i
said
it nicely, people didnt get the hint. so i just lost it. well, i didnt
really
loose it. i didnt directly abuse her did i? i just told her in plain
english to
get her shit together and decide what she wanted to do or she was gonna
miss
the cd. remember i was doing this as a favour remember. i am very very busy

here. i dont have time to keep mailing people over and over again saying
the
same thing over and over again. in the end i said yes to the first person
that
said: "yes i can send you £10 CASH". and that wasnt her. sour grapes
methinks...

| And, a simple "Sorry, but $10 doesn't cover it. £10 is about US $13.00
| and the freight will probably be more like $5 to the US" reply is a lot
| better than telling someone to go blow a flagpole.

i want to know what gives her the right to send a PRIVATE message to the
mailing list??? i wouldnt be so mad if she hadn't have edited the original
number of mails. it made it look like i said that on like the second mail
or
something. but their were heaps of other mails between her and i which she
did
omit... all saying pretty much the samething over and over again. "£10
cash"...
"$10 amercan?"... "£10 cash"... "an american money order?"... "£10 cash"...

"£10 IMO- that'll cost me too much" "well just send £10 cash then- which
was
the jist of the last message"

likewise, i am not a business selling stuff. i shouldnt have to wait on
every
whim and desire of someone that wants to buy the cd. they send me £10 cash
and
i send the cd. this is getting repetitive isnt it? now you're getting what
i
had to endure. next time when i offer (if i offer to do this again- which i

doubt) i will say in the message £10 cash and when i say it i mean it....
maybe
i came across as rude... but she just came across as plain stupid. end of
story.

| But who am I to tell anyone about manners, right?

exactly. the message wasnt to you. it was a private message sent to someone

else who posted it (i believe wrongly to the mailing list). i have never
abused
you. i have never done wrong by you. same as you have never done wrong by
me.
so i dont believe that you should be judging me on the edited mail of
someone
else. also, you dont come where i come from so you dont understand the
language
i am using. where i come from pissfart is not abusive. it is not rude. it
is
simply a term that everyone uses to describe somone that cannot decide
either
was. the moral is: dont go off half cocked... read a bit about the theories

behind deconstructionism and understand why we differ before you critise me
and
judge me for using language which means something different to you as to
what
it does to me. shitload means a lot. it is not a swear word...

dave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:48:23 +0100
From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a nice guy...

hi,

matthew falconer wrote:
| I look at it this way: as I live in Sydney, Australia,

you're from sydney? cool. i come from melbourne orgiinally, but now im
stuck in
england for a while. i cant wait to go home. this is such a shit country.
sure
the music is good and you can find any cd or record you want, but it is a
thrid
world nation. but then thats why i offered the cd. when i was in australia
i
always hoped that someone would find me stuff in the uk, but nope... so i
figured i'd offer it for some people on the list that i thought would
appreciate it... hmmmm.

sorry, the eps taken otherwise i would have sold it to you... are you after
any
other slowdive? i can have a look around here...

dave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:03:00 +0100
From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions

in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different. some
people
prefer puff daddy, some people prefer metallica, some people prefer
slowdive,
some people prefer classical, some people prefer jazz... etc... it doesnt
make
anything BETTER than something else. just DIFFERENT. what means a lot to
some
people may not mean anything to anyone else. everyone here will agree that
slowdive is awesome. but ask the people on the puff daddy mailing list what

they think about slowdive. i reckon you will get a pretty different
response.
ask the people on the classical music mailing list what they think of
sepultura
and they will probably hold them in considerably less regard than the
people on
the sepultura mailing list. its all very easy to say something like: "oh
but
they havent learnt to appreciate good music." or some other cliche that
gets
bandied around. but it remains a fact that every person interprets
EVERYTHING
in uniquely different ways...

but then what do i know? i'm just a rude asshole. right, box and whiskers
chick?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:09:07 +0200
From: Erik Soderstrom 
Subject: Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content)

> I was a little concerned at some of the attitude going on in this list 
> over something as SIMPLE as buying a friggin' Slowdive EP.

Yeah, and your own attitude is... what? Pleasant, calm and reasonable?

> Manners???? Well, davebp@postmaster.co.uk did say... ah, fuck it: to 
> save an argument, I'll just quote him:

[snip]

> Maybe you're just happy to pay fucking up-the-wall prices for CD's that, 
> at the end of the day, just aren't worth that much money. $50 my ass...

Just forget it. You have a right to act in any way you choose,
and that's your business. I was just pointing out that simple
manners go a long way - which apparently is pointless to say.
I don't want FUCK all over the Avalyn list. Okay?

 //Erik

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:31:38 +0000
From: "wade@tapehouse.com" 
Subject: Re: pale saints and emotive force

What are the hard to find pale saints albums e.p.s?

I found some yesterday at a NY record store, and I wanted some more 
info. before I purchased them.

wade

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:34:10 +0300
From: Siim Kalder 
Subject: Re: pale saints and emotive force

At 12:49 29.04.98 -0400, michael wrote:

> Do you feel that Spoonfed Hybrid is Masters' best work??

Well, I haven't had the chance to listen to Spoonfed Hybrid that much
(meaning I haven't had the chance to listen to it repeatedly over a lengthy
period of about half a year at least), but I definately find it an
extraordinary piece. I have always considered SH to be more like a project
or an experiment (correct me if I'm wrong) and that of course gives it the
right to be not so consistent as for example In Ribbons of Pale Saints is
IMO (the darn acronym starts to get on my nerves, who elses opinion can you
express here anyway??). Despite that there are several songs that can "blow
me away" too, sorry, but I can't recall the names. And as far as
_interesting_ goes, SH can easily compete with Pale Saints. As to an answer
for the question - no, I personally don't feel it to be Masters' best work.
It doesn't have the power of Saints or the completeness, at least for the
most part. 

Greetings, Siim K.
___________
siimk@ut.ee

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:37:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 davebp@postmaster.co.uk wrote:

> in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different. some
> people

Most of what Mr. Dave writes here makes sense except for the above ...
NO bad songwriting??
Surely there have been artists sometime in history which have put out 
records w/ poor songwriting ;-) ?
I could cite examples but this isn't necessary ...

that's all, cheers,
--Michael

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:16:17 +0000
From: "wade@tapehouse.com" 
Subject: MESSAGE TO SIIM KALDER

SORRY TO POST TO THE LIST,
  BUT SIIM KALDER, PLEASE E-MAIL WADE, I LOST
YOUR ADDRESS.

WADE

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: Pale Saints EPs

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, wade@tapehouse.com wrote:

> What are the hard to find pale saints albums e.p.s?
> 
> I found some yesterday at a NY record store, and I wanted some more 
> info. before I purchased them.

Nowadays, I'd have to say all the records would be hard to find in
North America 'cause they're all out of print(I think?) ...

Of the EPs, probably HALF-LIFE, FLESH BALLOON, BARGING INTO THE PRESENCE
OF GOD, and THROWING BACK THE APPLE would be the hardest to find - but,
then, that's almost the whole lot there ;-) ...

If they had Half-Life:  I'd definitely recommend picking it up as the
title track is really good!  ...Plus the record's cool 'cause it has this
unlisted 'hidden' track between the last song on side 2 and the run-off
groove ...
Of course the song is just utter Masters' eclecticism ... but, it's still
sorta neat ...

best to all,
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:41:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: butterfly mcqueen 
Subject: Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions

> in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different. 

come on!  i mean, of course judging songwriting is ultimately subjective,
being a matter of taste.  but that doesn't mean that within a certain
genre/style/whatever some people clearly do it better than others.  if all
rock did was 1-4-5's then i'd definitely go crazy.  ya know?  there's *some*
common ground, more or less.

; e.e.

------------------------------

End of Avalyn Digest Vol.98 #66
********************************

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This page was last updated May 1, 1998 by Erik Söderström

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