The Avalyn Digest

Today's Topics:
	 Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now more opinions
	 Re: read this erik
	 12" ep questions
	 Re: 12" ep questions
	 Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions
	 Re: read this erik
	 RE: pale saints and emotive force
	 Re: pale saints and emotive force
	 Sight of You Re: pale saints and emotive force
	 The Sight of Virgos Mad
	 Re: pale saints and emotive force
	 state of grace
	 STATE OF GRACE
	 Re: STATE OF GRACE
	 Re: STATE OF GRACE
	 Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:46:53 +0100
From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now more opinions

| On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 davebp@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
|
| > in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different.
some
| > people
|
| Most of what Mr. Dave writes here makes sense except for the above ...

i'm a Mr??? why not a miss, ms or mrs??? why does dave have to be a guys
name???

| NO bad songwriting??

yeah. NO bad songwriting. just some stuff that some people dont like. which
is
better, slowdive or mojave3? there is no better... just one you prefer
more.
and one you prefer less. it doesnt make one better and it doesnt make one
worse. same as it doesnt make one good and make one bad. i know people who
like
slowdive and call them awesome. but dont like mojave3 and call them "shit
poor
country western ripoffs"... does that make them bad? i dont think so. the
point
is: bad is in your opinion.

| Surely there have been artists sometime in history which have put out
| records w/ poor songwriting ;-) ?

yeah. there are but... thats just my opinion. others may love those songs
to
death...
example:
i love alison. that is one of my favourite slowdive songs. i reckon the
lyrics
are cool. i love them. especially the bit where he sings ...and the sailors

they strike poses... something about it just gets me. i dont know what. my
other half likes the song as well. but she reckons that line is the most
stupid
one slowdive has ever written. she thinks that slowdive are a piss poor
version
of spiritualized. i disagree. i prefer slowdive to spiritualized. whats the

point? there is no definative good/bad differntiation... its all a matter
of
personal taste. it sounds like common sense doesnt it, but its kinda
amazing
how many people are willing to write a song off as bad just because they
dont
like it.

| I could cite examples but this isn't necessary ...

yeah. it is. really. but then we would be biased, wouldnt we? i mean
everyone
on thislist comes from that whole slowdive school of thought. so if you
were to
bring up puff daddy or anything like that, chances are no one would
disagree
with you... i saw a puff daddy video the other day and i really liked the
music...

dave

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:50:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: biz <1cc5776@unixstew.tstc.edu>
Subject: Re: read this erik

this guy needs off the list

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 davebp@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
>|> fourthly, i had a shitload of replies from people assuming that they were
>|> the first person and thus the cd was theirs. so i told EVERYONE. the first
>|> person to sort it so that they can send me ten pounds cash gets the cd.
>|> simple.
>|
>| You can use the list to say that "hey all who sent me mail about the
>| Slowdive thingie - it's already gone" which would have saved you the
>| trouble of replying to all the e-mails but one - ie. the first who
>| mailed you about it.

cory
1cc5776@unixstew.tstc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:09:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: biz <1cc5776@unixstew.tstc.edu>
Subject: 12" ep questions

couple of questions from a newbie who doesn't know much about Slowdive 
recordings:

How rare is the Holding our Breath 12", and how much is it worth (like 
how much would you pay)?
 
and

What about a self titled 12"?  Is it really rare and worth much?

cory
1cc5776@unixstew.tstc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:45:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: Re: 12" ep questions

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, biz wrote:

> couple of questions from a newbie who doesn't know much about Slowdive 
> recordings:
> 
> How rare is the Holding our Breath 12", and how much is it worth (like 
> how much would you pay)?

It's not that rare ... I wouldn't pay more than 15 US$ for a good copy

> What about a self titled 12"?  Is it really rare and worth much?
 
[See above] 
SLOWDIVE 12" has been re-released (I'm not sure about any others); thus if
you're purchasing the re-release, you shouldn't be charged more than $9 -
which is around the retail price for an import EP record ...

Both records are very good - SLOWDIVE 12" is essential!

best,
michael

"where are you know? have you travelled too far?... have you got what you
need? ...and to whom do ya smile? ... did you take what you wanted, did
you take what was right? .. of whom do you fly w/... whose wings did you
steal? ... to whom should I write? ... --N. Halstead, Mojave3

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:57:15 +0100
From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions

| >in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different.
|
| come on!  i mean, of course judging songwriting is ultimately subjective,
| being a matter of taste.  but that doesn't mean that within a certain
| genre/style/whatever some people clearly do it better than others.  if
all
| rock did was 1-4-5's then i'd definitely go crazy.  ya know?  there's
*some*
| common ground, more or less.
|
| ; e.e.

maybe, maybe not! but whos gonna say which one is better than others? who
has
that right?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 18:27:49 +0100
From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk
Subject: Re: read this erik

why?

| this guy needs off the list
|
| cory
| 1cc5776@unixstew.tstc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:22:03 PDT
From: "dan smith" 
Subject: RE: pale saints and emotive force

To Wade, about the Pale Saints ep's, you really can't go wrong with any 
of them, especially the 12" with "Sight Of You", in my opinion, thier 
best song.  Does anyone know if this song is available on CD?

Dan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:25:06 -0700
From: "ryan cosebom" 
Subject: Re: pale saints and emotive force

sight of you:  cd__comforts of madness.
anyone see 'em play it live with colleen singing?
sounded pretty good.  saw it at 'all virgos are mad'

> To Wade, about the Pale Saints ep's, you really can't go wrong with any 
> of them, especially the 12" with "Sight Of You", in my opinion, thier 
> best song.  Does anyone know if this song is available on CD?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:02:36 -0500
From: timethief@juno.com (Luis B. Abcede)
Subject: Sight of You Re: pale saints and emotive force

Actually, I don't know if it was ever released as a single.  However,
their first EP _Barging into the Presence of God_ (4AD catalogue
BAD910CD), which is available on CD, includes the original version as
well as She Rides the Waves and Mother Might.  It may be a little
difficult to find as it's out-of-print, but it's not impossible.

Luis
timethief@juno.com

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:22:03 PDT "dan smith"  writes:

> To Wade, about the Pale Saints ep's, you really can't go wrong with any 
> of them, especially the 12" with "Sight Of You", in my opinion, thier 
> best song.  Does anyone know if this song is available on CD?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gilham 
Subject: The Sight of Virgos Mad

On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, ryan cosebom wrote:

> sight of you:  cd__comforts of madness.
> anyone see 'em play it live with colleen singing?
> sounded pretty good.  saw it at 'all virgos are mad'

Yes, I saw them play here in Washington in support of Slow Buildings and
they did it as such ...  Meriel said they'd "drawn straws" and Colleen had
won the 'prize'?  

	Whatever, but it woulda been fine if Graem had sung it I'm
sure ;-)  Yeah, that's the only song that Masters sung on that they were
playing I'm pretty sure - though, I cannot speak to this first hand; as I
only saw the one gig ...

	SIGHT OF YOU appears on the first record/CD, COMFORTS of madness,
I do not know if the orig. "BARGING" single was issued on CD, you'd think
it would've been ... not that I care 'cause I'd much rather have my 12"
;-)  I actually have 2 copies, 'cause the first one I bought was a Tower
cut-out!

To Ryan:  you're a lucky chap for getting to that "Virgos" thing ... do
you have the CD?
	If so, do you remember if Meriel sung the lyrics to Fine Friend
as it appears on the CD (w/ the additional bit) in contrast to the SLOW
BUILDINGS version?
	Of course, here, I'm assuming that they played the above! ;-)

best
Michael

PS anyone know where they came up w/ "All Virgos are Mad"?

PPS Any Virgos out there take offence to that daft title? ... I'm an Aries
myself -- not that it matters ...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:18:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gage Crump 
Subject: Re: pale saints and emotive force

Sight of You is a beautiful song. I actually have a live Ride tape from
Boston 92 and there are Ride Peel Sessions on the B-side on which Ride
covers Sight Of You. anyone else heard it? It sounds quite a lot like the
original, but with a bit of Vapour Trail smoothness. I actually saw Pale
Saints open for Ride at a small club in Newark, NJ (I'm not from there,
thank god), and I got there early, played a game of "football" with Lars,
Mark, and ? (the bassist) from Ride at an old school pitch not far from
the club, and then I talked to the lead singer of Pale Saints (Ian
Masters? from what I gleam from the posts) and asked him about Ride's
cover of Sight Of You, and he said something to the effect that he guesses
that Ride couldn't come up with enough original material...Anyway, I think
Comforts of Madness and Mrs. Dolphin are the best Pale Saints, with some
beautiful songs on In Ribbons (though I have trouble listening to the
whole album, it sounds too produced at times, not the soft hazy edge of
Comforts). that's all -gage

> sight of you:  cd__comforts of madness.
> anyone see 'em play it live with colleen singing?
> sounded pretty good.  saw it at 'all virgos are mad'
> 
> > To Wade, about the Pale Saints ep's, you really can't go wrong with any 
> > of them, especially the 12" with "Sight Of You", in my opinion, thier 
> > best song.  Does anyone know if this song is available on CD?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:22:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Petrina Katsikas 
Subject: state of grace

are there any other state of grace fans out there?
i really love them and was wondering if they've ever been discussed here.
is there a way for me to look this up in archives of this list?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:10:06 EDT
From: ALTONBARNS 
Subject: STATE OF GRACE

In a message dated 30/04/98  19:28:51, you write:

<<
 are there any other state of grace fans out there?
 i really love them and was wondering if they've ever been discussed here.
 is there a way for me to look this up in archives of this list?
>>

Yes!!

State of Grace...very cool! How would you describe them.....layers of effects
and sound (but not shoegaze, not enough delay/reverb for that), pardon the
description but `jelly` like sounds...slides....haze....pastel
colours.....bliss.

The early CD singles are very good!! 

Essential CD Singles
Miss you - STONECD007CDSINGLE (Essential as the album version is to tame)
Love, Pain & Pasion STONE005CD 
Hello e.p. - STONE012CD (Worth it for the 7 minute Sooner or later bliss out +
New Fear....dreamy! )

I think Sooner or Later and Love Pain and Passion are ver Satie influenced, in
an electronic kind of way. Oh and last years Everyone Elses Universe album was
pretty poo!

Ant

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:15:45 EDT
From: ALTONBARNS 
Subject: Re: STATE OF GRACE

In a message dated 30/04/98  20:13:55, you write:

<<
 I think Sooner or Later and Love Pain and Passion are ver Satie influenced, in
 an electronic kind of way. Oh and last years Everyone Elses Universe album was
 pretty poo!
>>

Sorry...that should have read poor (not Poo!)
Ant

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Petrina Katsikas 
Subject: Re: STATE OF GRACE

yes I would def say state of grace has a layered sound, layered is a
very good word for them. i just really like the melodies she sings and
the music just serves as a wonderful bed. i have to admit i've been a bit
lazy when it comes to searching their stuff out. i only have jamboreebop
(or is it pop? i always forget) but i've listened to it a million times.
i'll have to look for the other stuff you mentioned.

i looked for a web site once but that was a long time ago, i should
search again because i didn't find anything

thank you so much for the info! i've been telling all my friends about this
band, they came here once but i didn't see them. i wonder if they are still
around.

>> are there any other state of grace fans out there?
>> i really love them and was wondering if they've ever been discussed here.
>> is there a way for me to look this up in archives of this list?
> 
> Yes!!
> 
> State of Grace...very cool! How would you describe them.....layers of effects
> and sound (but not shoegaze, not enough delay/reverb for that), pardon the
> description but `jelly` like sounds...slides....haze....pastel
> colours.....bliss.
> 
> The early CD singles are very good!! 
> 
> Essential CD Singles
> Miss you - STONECD007CDSINGLE (Essential as the album version is to tame)
> Love, Pain & Pasion STONE005CD 
> Hello e.p. - STONE012CD (Worth it for the 7 minute Sooner or later bliss
> out + New Fear....dreamy! )
> 
> I think Sooner or Later and Love Pain and Passion are ver Satie influenced,
> in an electronic kind of way. Oh and last years Everyone Elses Universe
> album was pretty poo!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:36:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: butterfly mcqueen 
Subject: Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions

>| rock did was 1-4-5's then i'd definitely go crazy.  ya know?  there's
>| *some* common ground, more or less.
>
> maybe, maybe not! but whos gonna say which one is better than others? who
> has that right?

as far as "objectivity" goes, no one.  but we make try to convince one
another of subjective things all the time, like morals, let's say.  but
let's NOT get into that.  :)

i should say that this is the reason why art/literary/music critics are
still around and valued by a lot of people.  they're speaking on subjective
matters, but we value their opinions for some reason or other.  to reject
their opinions is not to reject rationality but just to disagree on some
fundamental matters of taste.  that's all.

; e.e.

------------------------------

End of Avalyn Digest Vol.98 #67
********************************

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This page was last updated May 1, 1998 by Erik Söderström

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